FBI
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@mayjay Are they going to sanction everyone? Schools could just tell the NCAA to pound sand.
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@chriz I think they actually do make you take down the banners under the “full compliance” with any sanctions standard. I.e., if you don’t take it down you are not “accepting” the sanction of vacating the celebrated appearance.
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See also: Duke and Corey Maggette.
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@BShark I hate to say it, but that statement proves nothing I think. I mean a communication from the KU athletic department saying we’re victims just doesn’t sound real convincing. That’s not to say we really are victims in this, but it just sounds funny. I wish the statement was from whoever named KU in this accusation.
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@wissox I didn’t say the statement proved anything. Just posted it because KU put out a statement. KU was named as a victim in the release though, fwiw. Take from that what you will.
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If Billy’s mom took the money, it took some huge amount of chutzpah for her to bitch about the investigation like she did!
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mayjay said:
If Billy’s mom took the money, it took some huge amount of chutzpah for her to bitch about the investigation like she did!
She did, don’t really think it can be disputed. And she’s completely crazy.
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@BShark How do you know Billy’s mom took money?
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@BShark The entire indictment claims all universities are the victims, not just KU. This is the first I’ve seen where no university employees supposedly knew, like an assistant coach.
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@wissox I read the indictment. I mean I guess there is a non-zero (like 0.000000000001) chance that she didn’t but I have a hard time seeing it any other way.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark The entire indictment claims all universities are the victims, not just KU. This is the first I’ve seen where no university employees supposedly knew, like an assistant coach.
Fair point. The verbage in the release did at least say that it was done w/o KU’s knowledge.
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You notice who’s not mentioned in all Of this? New Balance. Maybe the would like to get some 990s hoop style in the college game.
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Also If Silvio is not an amateur, I assume we vacate wins…
It doesn’t matter if the school knows or not.
Better check these top recruits we are getting this year. seems odd we are getting a medium stack out of nonehere.
Also batestradamus has been talking about petro shoe company for a very long time.
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@BShark The article I read says it doesn’t name specific players.
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Well, if our latest F4 gets vacated, we can possibly use USC’s clever ploy by no longer counting the loss to Villanova because of it being vacated. They used the Reggie Bush sanctions to claim that their 2006 bowl game loss to Texas was vacated, magically re-making them undefeated by the Longhorns!
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/09/usc-texas-bcs-rose-bowl-game-2006-vacated-loss-college-football
So, see? Wright doesn’t have Bill’s number as much as we thought.
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@BShark Which makes me question the total indictment — if University actors knew, how is the university a victim? Or where does it become relevant how much the university knew? And who is the university? The case seems to want to disassociate the university from it chosen representatives. Of course, the entire deal rides on the concept that a player is ineligible because of internal rules. Just a sham case anyway.
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wissox said:
@BShark The article I read says it doesn’t name specific players.
Yeah but it’s super obvious who the players involved are. You just have to piece it together.
Even ESPN managed that.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark Which makes me question the total indictment — if University actors knew, how is the university a victim? Or where does it become relevant how much the university knew? And who is the university? The case seems to want to disassociate the university from it chosen representatives. Of course, the entire deal rides on the concept that a player is ineligible because of internal rules. Just a sham case anyway.
Yeah, it’s a complete joke.
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I read the entire release and KU is mentioned as a victim and not as a perpetrator of any crime; in fact, KU is cited as having extra forms that parents/guardians must sign certifying the individual is in compliance with NCAA rules and regulations.
The Billy Preston deal should not affect KU at all since he did not play any official games. Silvio’s situation is a little more complicated since a guardian apparently took money to repay another shoe company that had already paid him to go somewhere (Under Armour, Maryland) but he wanted to go to KU, which would appear to indicate Silvio was not involved and did not benefit from it. Also, Silvio was cleared by the NCAA long after the FBI investigation had started, so KU appears to be on solid ground.
Having said that, I still think it is a huge overreach by the FBI to get involved to prosecute people that conspired to bypass rules of a private, non-government agency. Using the fact that the school receive federal funds seems pretty lame since the Athletic Department is funded mostly by private donations and not federal money. This seems to be a case better suited to Civil Court and maybe the IRS can get involved if the money was nor declared and taxes not paid, but the FBI acting as an enforcer of rules for a private, non-government agency seems like a waste of resources…just my opinion and I could be wrong.
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@Kcmatt7 she wont be in trouble because hes in the nba now. Ku on the other hand could be
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Gary Parrish is just salivating.
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kjayhawks said:
I’m fairly worried at this point that the 2018 season could easily be vacated, at least the wins that Silvio played in. Interesting enough a source I trusted today told me before this news broke that KU maybe headed away from Adidas very very soon. I would be shocked at this point if stuff isn’t vacated, hopefully they have stuff on some Nike schools like Dook or we could be headed down real quick.
KU didn’t sign their latest contract with them. Would certainly point to them looking at other options
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Blown said:
Also If Silvio is not an amateur, I assume we vacate wins…
It doesn’t matter if the school knows or not.
Better check these top recruits we are getting this year. seems odd we are getting a medium stack out of nonehere.
Also batestradamus has been talking about petro shoe company for a very long time.
They checked him, the NCAA checked. They cleared him.
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Gorilla72 said:
Gary Parrish is just salivating.
LOL our favorite troll back to business
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@BeddieKU23 wow. Gary Parrish sure can fill up a page with fecal scrapings can’t he?
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That’s the final straw- we’re just going to have to declare Silvio’s guardian ineligible,and be done with it. Goodbye, Silvio’s guardian…we hardly knew ye.
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approxinfinity said:
@BeddieKU23 wow. Gary Parrish sure can fill up a page with fecal scrapings can’t he?
I’m waiting for the featured story with him and Elpoyo anyday now.
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ReggieKansas said:
@Kcmatt7 she wont be in trouble because hes in the nba now. Ku on the other hand could be
The most troubling part of this to me is that KU’s name is involved at all. You don’t have to search too far to find less then amusing headlines aimed to make the casual person believe KU is involved. I’m certain this isn’t the last we hear of things
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BeddieKU23 said:
Blown said:
Also If Silvio is not an amateur, I assume we vacate wins…
It doesn’t matter if the school knows or not.
Better check these top recruits we are getting this year. seems odd we are getting a medium stack out of nonehere.
Also batestradamus has been talking about petro shoe company for a very long time.
They checked him, the NCAA checked. They cleared him.
Exactly my earlier point.
Not even clicking that trash from Parrish.
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I hate that we may be forced to place our hopes of retaining the 14th consecutive Big 12 Conference Championship and Final Four appearance on the Cam Newton NCAA precedent. It’s a sad, sad day for KU Basketball. Would someone please name De Sousa’s guardian, so I have someone besides Adidas to despise?
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BeddieKU23 said:
ReggieKansas said:
@Kcmatt7 she wont be in trouble because hes in the nba now. Ku on the other hand could be
The most troubling part of this to me is that KU’s name is involved at all. You don’t have to search too far to find less then amusing headlines aimed to make the casual person believe KU is involved. I’m certain this isn’t the last we hear of things
Yeah this might be the worst part about it for now.
Also I wouldn’t count on elpoyo posts any time soon.
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@approxinfinity I don’t see anything wrong with that article. He covered exactly the same concern dozens of Board rats have expressed since last fall’s indictments (would the addidas case roll to KU?), and our worries about the implications for KU if yesterday’s indictment leads to NCAA sanctions (SDS ineligible? vacating F4 & victories? end to the Streak?). And, we may not like it, but nationally there has been suspicion about KU that, yes, the indictment appears to confirm if true. He actually didn’t get into the Billy side of things, which surprised me after reading your comment.
Exactly what do you find objectionable from a writer not writing for KU fans?
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The report called us victims, right? That is HUGE. They feel sorry for us. I think we’ll be fine. When the FBI lists you as a victim, I don’t see the NCAA coming after us over it, other than punishing De Sousa IF they can prove he knew about it, and gained from it. We’re a long way from Death Row, and we didn’t hire strippers for our recruits, so I think we will be fine.
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I have a tough time finding real victims in this other than the IRS not getting their tax money lol.
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@mayjay two reasons:
When is Kansas finally going to get looped into the FBI investigation?
Finally? Really? There is a gleeful presumption of guilt here that is amateurish and nauseating.
If the NCAA can eventually prove that De Sousa’s guardian was indeed paid $20,000 (at least) to enroll De Sousa at Kansas, which is what the indictment alleges, the Jayhawks will likely be forced to vacate their 2018 Big 12 title and appearance in the 2018 Final Four.
Likely? How about possibly? Again, he is hopelessly incapable of or unwilling to leave his own bias out of the article.
He’s a clown.
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@KUSTEVE Remember, unfortunately the “victim” status is based on people defrauding KU into believing the players retained eligibility. If we were victimized, by implication the players were not eligible, and that always leads to sanctions against a program. Even harsher sanctions get imposed if there is a finding that our not knowing was due to lack of adequate control or inquiry (but the cautious handling of Billy would suggest we were diligent when a red flag appeared).
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@mayjay Cliff situation too.
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@approxinfinity 1. He based that on the fact that the fall indictments were all about addidas funneling money to players and/or families, and we are addidas’ flagship program. Did you miss all the posts here that discussed the same fears?
And 2. If any participating players were ineligible, yes, there will be sanctions, and, yes, there will be vacating of victories and F4, and return of tourney money.
Can you recall any instances where a team did not face sanctions where so much money was involved involving a player participating in a number of the team’s games, especially throughout the tournament?
Everyone thinking we won’t face sanctions is forgetting that the inducements here were to go to KU, not just get an “in” with the family a la Cliff. I think it unfathomable that the NCAA could ever let that go, lest schools continually cry “We didn’t know!” while reaping the benefits of ineligible player participation.
The best thing that could happen for KU would be for the defendants to plead guilty in a deal that leaves the documents sealed so the NCAA has nothing to go on.
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@mayjay Auburn, Cam Newton.
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@mayjay The NCAA is a powerless joke.
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If KU played an ineligible player (Silvio) should the wins be vacated?
If Kentucky played an ineligible Davis should their title be vacated? The games were played and outcomes determined by the players, but what if some of the players shouldn’t have been playing? Even a roll player, like Silvio?
This whole deal sucks. Dammit Adidas.
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BShark said:
@mayjay The NCAA is a powerless joke.
What power would you like it to have? They basically make sure college athletic departments playing in their sports are not cheating.
If a player takes shoe money outside of the college what do you want the NCAA to do? Should they have FBI like power?
If a school(UNC) creates easy classes that ANY student can take and basically cheapens their institute of learning what power should the NCAA have?
Everyone blames the NCAA and bad mouths them. How about these punk kids who think they are pros go put their skills on the real free market and go to Europe and play for a year. Go cry to the NBA about not being able to try out for a year after graduation. It isnt the NCAAs fault you cant get paid.
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@BShark The Cam case might seem to be an outlier, but the money sought by his dad was from Miss State, and he never went there. Auburn had a good case that Cam did not participate in any discussions, and that his father was not authorized as his agent. We all suspected that it was unlikely Daddyo steered Cam to Auburn without a similar incentive, but there was no evidence.
And a big difference (true for Cliff, too): the NCAA investigation was not instigated by a criminal indictment backed by FBI subpoena power.
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@BigBad It is not their fault that the players face the OAD rule, but it is their rule that the players cannot get paid (by anyone other than the school, and not beyond the schollie and “cost of attendance” stipend).
But the member schools created it, and if they don’t like it they can get rid of either the NCAA or its rules. I would make a strong guess that most schools, over 250 of whom are from non-power 5 conferences in Div 1, are happy with the restrictions facing the powers in recruiting and player benefits. And further, that they would be really unhappy if the NCAA were to not sanction ineligibility just because of a fear that the practice is widespread.
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I can’t wait on the football findings, It would make the basketball stuff seem like small potatoes.
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chriz said:
Do they make you take down your banners? Do they make you stop printing back-2-back-2-back-2-back etc. t-shirts?
In researching the USC case (my post about vacating their loss to Texas in 2006) the article stated that the USC media guide was required to include the info about their 2004 championship being vacated. I don’t know the context, but I would speculate that schools can mention their successes but must include any info about sanctions vacating those.
We could see, perhaps, if Villanova, Michigan, UMass, Memphis, or Louisville have banners with an asterisk.
T-shirts? Interesting problem: can they prevent the sanctioned schools from licensing copyrighted and trademarked logos and slogans (e.g., Rock Chalk, KU, University of Kansas, Jayhawks)?
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Isn’t NC St probably scared out of their britches more? The Indictment indicates a coach on the staff passed along the money to Dennis Smith Jr? Not that they have a Final 4 to be worried about but that certainly seems more troubling? No?
What do you make of the allegations involving coaches that happened in the first round of this in relation now to these reports.
How is a school or the NCAA for that matter supposed to vet something that was explicitly concealed from them. It took the FBI to find this out. Are we going to be victims and punished for not knowing, or having the ability to be the FBI before admitting Silvio?
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BeddieKU23 said:
Are we going to be victims and punished for not knowing, or having the ability to be the FBI before admitting Silvio?
The NCAA cleared him. Unless coaches or university knew he got paid we cant be held accountable.
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Why don’t we have boosters give all the Duke and Kentucky guys $20K apiece and make them ineligible (if that’s how the findings go)? Recruiting espionage.
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I will say that all previous cases, the athlete was caught by the NCAA. With no real way to prove that the school or a coach wasn’t directly involved or aware.
This case may very well be different because the FBI has came out and declared that KU had no knowledge of either situation. KU has proven as well that they will go to great lengths to not play someone when they do have knowledge. To punish our program because of Silvio would shock me. Especially if he is ruled eligible to play this next year. If Quinerley and Nas Little can get cleared to play, Silvio will as well, and at that point there would be no vacating of wins. I’ll be surprised to see us vacate anything.
