Kansas - Michigan State chat
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@Bwag Not just Mick either…DG played very poorly & Greene set on the bench the final 5 min in a shooters game so what do we do? Grind it out, 2’s for 3’s, bad ball, with an assassin on the pine. I’m really shakin my head over this one men. PPP period!
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LL 14 mins/Traylor 18 mins
HM 3 mins/Bragg 11 mins
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@brooksmd Bragg not ready yet.
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If I were a journalist in the presser after this game, I don’t think I would be able to help myself from glaring at Self and saying “I hate you sometimes.”
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Top two rebounders for KU Lucas and Traylor with 7 each…
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@MoonwalkMafia good thing you’re not
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@cragarhawk They beat the world.
HEM has demo’d with stats that Traylor is the nearly worst RB/min in self era & he doesn’t bring much production in offense.
Lucas about the same offensively.
Hunter blocks shots, gets hands on ball. Keeps it alive.
Not sure how the guards got so screwed up this game but if you don’t have an inside game, how much pressure does that put on them. Bragg was 2/2 but how many minutes did he play.
This is a disaster. Self recruits incredible talent and then leaves it on the bench.
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Devonte’ Graham, FGM = 1-9 3PM = 0-4 FTM = 2-2
Grahman needs to sit !!
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@Crimsonorblue22 You’re blind and too far gone in the Bill Self fan club if you’re not upset with him right now.
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is Selden injured? If so is his 3 inch vertical and pursuit D better than svi’s ability?
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@MoonwalkMafia I wouldn’t say hate though.
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@DanR He must be hurt. No other explanation.
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100% on Self.
Player rotation absolutely a disaster.
The bigs he plays don’t pass the stat nor the eyeball test. LOSE/LOSE
and we are 1 - 1 because of it.
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Couldn’t finish at the rim in the second half, missed FTs at key juncture, unfathomable coaching decisions + but biggest problem was complete breakdown on defense the last 10+ minutes. We got no stops. If they happened to miss a shot, they got the rebound. No interior presence at all. Traylor does nothing on the defensive end inside.
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Very poor game for Graham and yet he was the leader in assists with a measly 4.
KU 12 assists, Valentine 12 assists
MSU 9 blocks, KU 1 block
KU 3-15, 20% from 3…
Several front end misses of 1 and 1…
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I don’t like the Champions Classic anymore. What is KU now 1-4?
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@VailHawk So funny! But so sad, because it’s true… I thought he had cured himself of flailing towards the basket, trying to draw fouls, instead of just using your athleticism and trying to score. Like he did in Korea. But, alas, that must have been a Korean dream also
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Bragg had zero rebounds in 11 minutes. Hunter 1 board in 3 minutes.
Just an observation.
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@Bwag Yep. I was watching UK and was impressed with what Cal does with freshman. He is better at getting his players ready and playing defense well. Been that way the last five years. Self needs to take notice.
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@Bwag the wug means very lil to me. It obviously wasn’t much of an advantage anyways. Ppl will remember NC’s. That’s about it honestly. I agree that Traylor is a terrible rebounder. Ellis not much better. For all he does do… When for the love of God is he gonna get above the rim. Probly never by now… Have to start recruiting better or actually developing the players we do recruit. Cause this team looks no different than the team that lost to Wichita st
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@JayHawkFanToo Graham had 3 asssists in 1sth half I think… means 1 in 2nd half.
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@cragarhawk That is my opinion also. Exact same team as last year.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
Very poor game for Graham and yet he was the leader in assists with a measly 4.
KU 12 assists, Valentine 12 assists
MSU 9 blocks, KU 1 block
KU 3-15, 20% from 3…
Several front end misses of 1 and 1…
Our best Shot blocker sat on bench and was in warm ups towards end of game.
Crying shame
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@DinarHawk said:
@Bwag Yep. I was watching UK and was impressed with what Cal does with freshman. He is better at getting his players ready and playing defense well. Been that way the last five years. Self needs to take notice.
X100
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@tundrahok key point is 3 MIN.
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@JayHawkFanToo the number you need to be looking at is offensive rebounds for MSU. That’s as big a part of this loss as anything… And believe it or not. It’s a heart stat. Same story I tell my rec league boys. One team flat out wanted the ball more than the other.
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@Bwag Yeah, can’t explain that one.
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This is a very good MSU team, analyst were saying better than last year’s Final four team. It got votes to win it all in the ESPN poll.
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@cragarhawk True, MSU had 10 off boards, but we had 12.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
top rebounders for KU:
Traylor 7
Lucas 7
Ellis 6
And those stats mean NOTHING. They had nearly all the PT. They got outrebounded. Ithink Traylors first 4 RB’s were when MSU was shooting about 24% at the start of the game. Hell Mason had 5 RB’s so Trayor /LUcas Rebounding nubmers mean nothing until you start to look at RB/min like HEM has shown.
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@tundrahok they had several right at key moments in the last 8 min and ended up getting a lot second chance pts. You could see the mo swing. I told my wife we were done with 7 to go
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Traylor 7 rebounds in 18 minutes, Lucas 7 rebounds in 14 minutes…How many did you expect them to have in those minutes?
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Goodnight !!!
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@Bwag Traylor actually looks better on the boards so far this year. Of course it’s only the second game, so stats don’t mean too much just yet with such a low sample size. But Traylor and Lucas had more boards/min this game than Bragg or Hunter (granted it’s hard to do much in 3 minutes).
Frustrating loss, regardless.
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@Eric-san said:
I don’t like the Champions Classic anymore. What is KU now 1-4?
Good thing Self won 1 NC. Otherwise, we’d be saying he doesn’t manage talent and big game situations well.
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@cragarhawk Our worst Rebounders wer in the game despite the actual numbers.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
Traylor 7 rebounds in 18 minutes, Lucas 7 rebounds in 14 minutes…How many did you expect them to have in those minutes?
AND 8 points between the two of them. Do you disagree that they are our worst offensive options in the 5 verses Mick/Bragg?
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@cragarhawk Yes, it’s the way we ended the game that was most disappointing. MSU clearly wanted it more, greater heart and effort at the end.
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Every loss is frustrating. But I had marked this game rather than the first as a judge of improvement. Don’t see any so far. Nobody cares what ya can against the northern Colorados of the world. Blowing double digit leads… Irritates me to no GD end
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
Traylor 7 rebounds in 18 minutes, Lucas 7 rebounds in 14 minutes…How many did you expect them to have in those minutes?
What were Bragg/Mickelson minutes? I’m trying tofind that.
Want to find the EFF numbers.
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@Bwag I’m not arguing this point. At all
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This is something that I’m sure will be beat in to the ground over the next few days, but… It’s not that Traylor played bad. It’s not that Lucas played bad per se. It’s that what you see out of them tonight is their ceiling. Lucas is a ghost on both ends of the floor by and large, and Traylor has no offensive game and historically can’t rebound. Yet, Mickelson shows you what he’s capable of over the summer. He has a jump shot, he’s a rim protector, he can rebound, has a good feel for the game and a good b-ball IQ. Basically, he brings everything Traylor and Lucas do and more. So why not play him? Why on god’s green earth would you not play him? If you’re rewarding Traylor and Lucas for their time in the program, I’d like to remind you that Hunter is also a senior and should be rewarded for his commitment and dedication to KU.
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We were talking rebounding and since the numbers don’t fit your narrative now you switch to offense…
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KU lost because they can’t rebound plain and simple. You can’t be -7 on glass against MSU and expect to beat them.
This is why KU needs Diallo so badly. Even while he’s learning how to play offense and defense, he can be a rebounding monster like Robinson was.
I’d also like to know why Greene wasn’t in in the last couple of minutes when KU needed a 3? You don’t need his defense because you’re fouling anyway, but to leave your best shooter on the bench is just stupid.
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Let the criticism of Coach self begin…I am outta here…
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
We were talking rebounding and since the numbers don’t fit your narrative now you switch to offense…
The players play both offense and defense in BBall. Nature of the game.
Mick/Bragg mintutes were 14 combined. The same as Lucas alone.
Mick - 3 min Bragg - 11 min
I’d argue that Mick should be starting and taking Jamari’s 18 mintutes. I’d argue that we’d be even on RB and have more on Offense.
Give Bragg (for now) Lucas 11 minutes and what would we have? That is less clear at this point on RB (def) but certainly more offense. And more points win.
Let our less talented players- Mari and Lucas pick up the spot minutes.
I’ll bet our overall offense would run smoother and we’d see more efficiency.
Most importantly, not lose the fricken game.
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Lots of blame to go around. I personally blame Landen and/or the guy who made him play most of the game. That and our awesome “I’ll let you shoot” perimeter defense. Now I’m going to have a night cap and pretend we just didn’t blow another late lead to a team from Michigan.
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@MoonwalkMafia Mickelson, our best big of the Summer got 3 damn minutes.
Game, set match…
Self 1-4 in this series.
