Jacque Vaughn... Thoughts?
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@dylans Roy Williams had a 418-101 record and a .805 winning percentage during his 15 seasons as head coach at Kansas from 1988 to 2003. His teams were ranked in the Top 25 for 145 consecutive weeks from 1991 to 1999. He led Kansas to 14 consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances, including two national championship games.
I guess we can look at virtually any subject and see things differently. Roy was seconds away from having 2 NC’s at KU, just like Bill. IN MY OPINION - (cuz that’s all we have here) his teams were more talented and fun to watch. How did he fizzle out at the end of his KU tenure? His last game was a National Championship game.
I’m not saying he was a better coach than Self (although, statistically he was - 80.5% to 80.4%) I just liked watching Roy’s passion and the uptempo game that his teams played. In the long run, Big 12 Championships are nice but don’t mean a whole lot.
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@nuleafjhawk But that’s all Roy won, big 8 and Big 12 championship games. I watched nearly every single single game of Roy’s and Bill’s KU tenures. I don’t remember Roy winning anything of consequence until he went to UNC. I do remember him losing to Arizona with the best basketball team I’ve seen assembled…
Now as human beings - Roy was much more approachable. He’d chat with you. I love the man. His best basketball was with UNC though.
Do you like NBA basketball? That tempo matches what you seem to prefer better. I’m ok with a defensive battle as long as there is some scoring - Virgina grind it out in the 50s and 60s is not fun for me though. Too extreme.
I agree the uptempo style is fun to watch. Kind of like passing the ball in football. But defense wins championships when combined with scoring punch.
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@nuleafjhawk I think it’s pretty obvious to see that college basketball has become way more competitive over the course of Bill’s tenure at Kansas. We also have to take into account Kansas was a Nike school during all of Roy’s time at KU. As soon as the switch happened after Bill’s first couple of big recruiting hauls, the talent level acquired was highly inconsistent. The NCAA targeting non Nike schools during investigations was a dirty trick to help the Nike brand and the schools that represented them. BS consecutive conference championships was way more impressive than anything Roy accomplished at KU. Especially with the competitiveness of the league improving by leaps and bounds. I was at the senior night game where Brandon Rush and crew beat Texas Tech 109-51 or something like that. Look where Tech is now. Roy and his teams never had to compete as consistently against the bottom dwellers of the Big12. Bill has had plenty of exciting offensive teams. I’m pretty sure KU led the nation in lobs and dunks quite often. Just ask Jay Wright and Villanova in 2008 NCAaa tournament.
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Both great coaches. What a problem to have. Well it is a problem for the next guy, expectations are sky high!!! Maybe if I go back another coach - nope Brown won a national championship in his short tenure. Gonna need someone who embraces the high expectations to fill Bill’s shoes when he decides to retire.
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I’m excited for Vaughn, he’s literally one of the reasons I became a Jayhawk fan at a young age, his jersey hangs on my wall in my Jayhawk themed Man Cave. I’m excited what he can bring to the table here with his experience professionally. Hopefully this is finalized soon
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I still can’t lay the 2003 loss to the Evil Orange at Roy’s feet. Unfortunately KU shot under 50% on FTs. Unlike Cal who ignored UK’s problems all season in 2007-08, Roy cared about those but sometimes the balls don’t go in.
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@dylans Embiid, OAD, Wiggins, OAD, Chalmers 2 + national Champ, Morris both 3 years (?), Oubre OAD, Braun 3 + NC, Selden 3 years (?), Dick OAD.
Williams guys hung around enough for us to get to know them. Wish Williams guys could a made some FTs in 2003 or to me at least it’s a clear cut argument in his favor.
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@mayjay I wouldn’t blame Coach Cal for ignoring Kentucky’s problems in 2008 when he coached Memphis.
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@wissox said in Jacque Vaughn... Thoughts?:
@dylans Embiid, OAD, Wiggins, OAD, Chalmers 2 + national Champ, Morris both 3 years (?), Oubre OAD, Braun 3 + NC, Selden 3 years (?), Dick OAD.
Williams guys hung around enough for us to get to know them. Wish Williams guys could a made some FTs in 2003 or to me at least it’s a clear cut argument in his favor.
Oh I thought you were curious who had the better nba players. At Kansas Roy probably squandered more assembled talent than Bill has.
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Roy vs Bill
4 final fours for each. Different patterns due to different recruit patterns. Roy was all or nothing on the recruiting trail - so 2 then a 9 year gap and 2 more. Bill averages a final four every 4-5 years. - wash
2 national runner ups for Roy vs 1 for Bill. -Edge Roy
2 National Championship winners for Bill. - Off the top turnbuckle Bill Self for half of KU’s NCAA championships.
Roy won 9 conference championships. So far Bill has won a record 14 straight conference championships 17 in total. - edge Bill
Number players drafted - 15 Roy. Bill - 19 current players another 17 former players. - edge Bill
Bill’s been good for KU. I hope he regains his form quickly in this altered landscape. A shakeup in the staff may invigorate him.
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My basement flooded a couple weeks ago - it nearly got my Jacque Vaughn SI that’s been sitting on top of a stack of magazines since the 90s. That would’ve been a shame, but disaster averted. All I need is new carpet no sentimental attachment there. lol
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@dylans This doesn’t even take our 2020 team which probably deserves a championship into account
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@Jhawk69 said in Jacque Vaughn... Thoughts?:
@dylans This doesn’t even take our 2020 team which probably deserves a championship into account
I try to repress that memory. It still makes me ill. In a weird way it stole a lot of the fun out of the ‘22 championship for me.
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@Jhawk69 By cracky, you’ve got a point there! I thought something was wrong and just kept looking at spelling and grammar. Didn’t notice my incorrect identification of the sea in which the Squid was swimming!
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Roy probably gets his ring in 97 if Jerrod Haase didn’t try to play with a broken wrist. He played 14 minutes, well below his average. Only scored 3. That game he did make 1 basket, a 3 showing it wasn’t totally an impediment, but reading recently about it KU believes it was a game changer. Still the worst loss in my KU fandom, with 2003 a close 2nd.
What’s different and scary (LOL) for our future is Bill Self was a no doubt about it great hire at the time. He’s still the BIG’s win % leader but obviously a smaller sample size (102 games). If Vaughn does become the successor as some suppose, he doesn’t have this college cred on his resume. It’s the unknown. Williams was a rookie HC, so there was some unknown there too of course.
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@wissox Roy gets his ring if Haase doesn’t break his wrist
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Du… du haase… du hasst to see it.
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@wissox Dammit. What you just said. THAT’S what I wanted to say.
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@wissox nobody has a large college sample size given how different the game is post NIL. Bill had zero NBA experience, something that might have been valuable these last 3 years
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@Crimsonorblue22 Larry might have had two if Archie Marshall hadn’t gotten injured in 1986. Besides Haase, Roy also might have won if Capt Kirk hadn’t hurt his knee. Bill, perhaps three if Embiid hadn’t …
You can go on and on with what if’s! It’s what makes sports fun–no season is ever over in our memories!
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97 team was so good! Agree
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@mayjay 3 if embiid didnt get hurt? No way man. That roster was “woof!”
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So, ball is in Vaughn’s court as far as taking the job. Perhaps he’s negotiating some more NIL (half kidding) but hopefully some news this week there.
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@mayjay said in Jacque Vaughn... Thoughts?:
@Crimsonorblue22 Larry might have had two if Archie Marshall hadn’t gotten injured in 1986. Besides Haase, Roy also might have won if Capt Kirk hadn’t hurt his knee. Bill, perhaps three if Embiid hadn’t … You can go on and on with what if’s! It’s what makes sports fun–no season is ever over in our memories!
Bill likely scored another nattie in the Covid year. That team was a real smasher!
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Embiid was never going to beat Florida that year. However, our 2019 team if Doke stays healthy and LaGerald doesn’t quit the team might be another final 4 or title as well.
