Emporia State EXI
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Thank goodness we now have actual dribbling, shooting and defending to talk about. I still like playing the Kansas colleges; Emporia State has players from Burlington, Osage City, Spring Hill, Bonner Springs and Tonganoxie. I think it’s great that Kansas kids get to play in Allen Fieldhouse.
And, Emporia State brings a new coach to the game. Craig Doty just got hired in April and gets to play the Jayhawks as his first game for Emporia. Welcome aboard Coach. Good luck.
KU starters: Dok, Dedric, Grimes and… . I say Vick and Moore. Both because they’ve been in the program and know how KU operates. Rock Chalk.
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I think we should give ESU a couple of our guys. Seriously.
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Same. I’m tired of just talking legalese and rumors. I do post a lot on those just because it’s what I’ve done for a living, but I like actual basketball more. If I had to guess, I’d say the starters will be Dotson, Grimes, K.J., Dedric, and Doke. Though it would be zero surprise to see Vick starting at the 3. I’m like 90% sure Devon has shown the staff enough to claim the PG spot over Charlie. He’s probably better suited as a canned offense guy off the bench.
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DanR said:
I think we should give ESU a couple of our guys. Seriously.
Elijah and Luinstra?
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BShark said:
DanR said:
I think we should give ESU a couple of our guys. Seriously.
Elijah and Luinstra?
This is a 12:30 Farmer is finishing his beer take but EJ is gonna make a big 3 for KU at some point in his career. Dude is a legit mid major talent who’s family doesn’t give a rats ass about paying for school
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It’s just been a long wait for Dedric, KJ, Grimes and the rest to get on the court. I was underwhelmed by the Late Night scrimmage. Looking ahead two weeks to Nov 6, Michigan St probably starts: Nick Ward, F 6’9", 245 lbs. 12.4 pts. Xavier Tillman, F/C 6’8", 245 lbs. Cassius Ward, PG 6’1", 12.6 pts., 49.7%-3 pt shooting Matt McQuaid, G, 6’5" Josh Langford, G 6’5"
Winston’s 3 point shooting and Nick Ward’s inside play seem to be the strengths. Oh boy, do I love beating Coach Izzo. How you going to stop Dok & Dedric Michigan State?
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@stoptheflop As a Big 10 follower, MSU is more beatable this year than most I think. But they’ve kind of had our number in recent years.
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@wissox Yeah, MSU lost their two best players. Bridges and Jackson. Of course Izzo didn’t play Jackson enough in the first place.
I’ve mentioned this before but my family is mostly MSU and U of M grads so I follow those two almost as closely as KU.
Anyway, not saying MSU can’t win, because Izzo is a decent coach but this definitely isn’t a vintage MSU team. The way I see it they have 4 dudes: Winston, Langford, Tillman and Ward and the rest are just guys. Patent pending on dudes and guys rating system.
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Who may remind me of the players involved in Tom Izzo’s isolation play when MSU beat us in the tourney? I still have a mental image of MSt’s 4 offensive players isolating 4 of our defenders away from the basket, leaving the game to be decided by two guards going one-on-one. Great play called by Izzo; one of the best I can remember. Can anyone explain why our other 4 defenders let themselves be isolated and became spectators for the decisive play of the game? One KU defender in the paint helping our guard would have solved the problem. How do the rest of you remember this play?
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@BShark Does your family believe that UM plays by the rules in recruiting? Just about everyone I talk to here believes that.
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@Hawk8086 They surely don’t in football.
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@BShark Yes. But basketball?
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@Hawk8086 I think they are probably as clean as anyone can be and still be successful. By that I mean I’m sure there is still some shady alumni/booster thins going on. But that John Beilein is probably pretty dang clean himself. He does a lot finding hidden gems and lands mostly localish players.
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@DanR Give them Silvio and Vick, the two guys most likely to not finish the season!*
[* I HOPE I AM WRONG}
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Where would Vick be going?
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With all of this FBI BS I’m the least excited I’ve been for KU basketball since I started watching in the mid 90s. It will be interesting to see what’s mentioned on the air on the case.
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I’m looking forward to seeing the Dedric that Coach Self has been talking about: “unguardable” and “best passer.” Dok may practice his free throw shooting during the exhibitions and Grimes, Dotson and Moore may acclimate to the flow of Coach Self’s offense. I can’t wait for the season to begin. Finally.
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The exhibitions really are just going to be scrimmages this year, with all of the focus on getting continuity before playing Sparty to start the year. It will be interesting to see what lineups play together and whether Self toys with some of his more exotic options or goes back to his more traditional 3 out, 2 in. There are some creative lineups he could put together with Dedric at the 5, and some equally creative lineups with Dedric and KJ at the 3 and 2. Whether Self does that will tell us a bit about how much he may be willing to push the envelope to create favorable matchups this season with so much depth at his disposal.
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stoptheflop said:
I’m looking forward to seeing the Dedric that Coach Self has been talking about: “unguardable” and “best passer.” Dok may practice his free throw shooting during the exhibitions and Grimes, Dotson and Moore may acclimate to the flow of Coach Self’s offense. I can’t wait for the season to begin. Finally.
Dedric should look completely unstoppable in the exhibitions if he puts forth an effort. I’m intrigued to see him against MSU who has some big athletes in the post.
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@BShark Yes, I was disappointed to hear Coach Self complaining about the lack of effort Grimes puts in and his comments about Dedric being low key, but sneaky with his scoring. I always admired Frank and Josh’s motors: It showed me they cared about winning.
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@stoptheflop I don’t think he meant it exactly that way. I think he meant he has more to give and can do more than he knows. I don’t know if that makes sense. If you saw him play in the USA games, he’s not lazy! Josh has to have that motor cause he can’t shoot, the best of josh and wiggs together would be a great bb player! That fire I love about josh has also got him in trouble.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@stoptheflop I don’t think he meant it exactly that way. I think he meant he has more to give and can do more than he knows. I don’t know if that makes sense. If you saw him play in the USA games, he’s not lazy! Josh has to have that motor cause he can’t shoot, the best of josh and wiggs together would be a great bb player! That fire I love about josh has also got him in trouble.
Yeah he just meant that sometimes Grimes needs that extra push. Grimes responds well to being challenged. It won’t shock me one bit if Grimes has more points on average against Nova, UK and MSU than he does against Wofford, South Dakota etc…
Dedric is the kind of player that isn’t likely to throw down dunks in a game and sometimes won’t look like he is doing much but then you check the stat sheet and see like 18/8/6/2/1 or something like that.
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@stoptheflop Anyone know if the game will be on the ESPN+ ??? Cuz I am really needing to watch this game tonight.
Someone @ me on this!
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This is not the same thing as Wiggins just coasting. This is more like he shies away from trying to be THE scorer when he needs to because he is the best.
Grimes is not the physical specimen that Wiggins was and therefore not the guaranteed Top 5 pick Wiggins would have been either. He will have to show out at the college level to be a lottery pick.
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@stoptheflop If Coach Self can get Wiggs to play good ball, then he can get Grimes to do it. Never met the kid but I bet he has more heart in his pinky than Wiggs does in is whole body.
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@Kcmatt7 I watched Grimes compete in the FIBA tournament and was impressed with his size. The roster says 6’5", 210. He has broad shoulders and isn’t afraid to defend bigger guys in the paint. He played bigger than a shooting guard in the FIBA tourney last summer.
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Powerful legs too
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Lulufulu said:
@stoptheflop If Coach Self can get Wiggs to play good ball, then he can get Grimes to do it. Never met the kid but I bet he has more heart in his pinky than Wiggs does in is whole body.
Part of it with Grimes is he has such a good basketball mind that he always just wants to make the right theoretical play even if that was a pass to a player that is less likely to score than he is.
Given that he will be surrounded with much more talent at KU than he was in HS/AAU that should help him as well.
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I remember way back when, before many Bucketeers were even a glint in their parents’ eyes–heck, before some of their parents were even a glint in the g-parents’ eyes–that the huge knock on Amos Otis was that he “wasn’t giving 100%,” or he got by on “superstar talent with journeyman effort,” and stuff like that. He stole bases and made it look easy, so why didn’t he try harder and steal more? He could cover 36,000 acres in centerfield, so why didn’t he catch that one at the wall in right center? He trotted to first on groundouts to the pitcher, but shouldn’t you run every time? Then Brett came in, who blew every one away with his crazy full-bore hustle, probably cementing Otis’s legacy as not givlng it all. The performance by Cain in the WS years was hailed as an Otis with the “right” approach, with all those advanced metrics to document his superhuman feats.
Looking back at Otis, and now Wiggins, I think that people see those guys as blessed with ability that enables them to perform spectacularly all the time if they would just try harder, or focus more. But I think the reality is that no one in history can be spectacular all the time. Even Wilt, with the single greatest and longest variation of statistical excesses over average in basketball, was accused of not doing everything he could (couldn’t beat Russell, so he must not have been a team player, etc). I think what we see is that these guys are so fluid in their movements that we think they are taking it easy when they really are giving it all. Sometimes, circumstances (a rebound at just the right angle, an opening in the line in football, a reachable line drive n the gap, etc) provide the uniquely talented some opportunities for the spectacular, but we err in thinking spectacular can ever be routine.
“He makes it look so easy” is one of the worst things that can be said about an athlete. These sports are not easy for anyone, and that is why very, very few athletes (even the greatest hustlers in history) have few seasons spectacularly exceeding the mean. If it were simply effort, we would not see the very ones we extol as examples of better effort regress in years we forget or don’t pay as much attention to.
Now, I agree that “focus” obviously is different. Not paying attention to a coach’s play-calling, making dumb fouls, not blocking out, passing to someone who isn’t there… All these are things we have seen every athlete do. I just think they are magnified when a guy who “makes it look easy” does them.
Sometimes a tiny bit of luck can play a big role in perception. If just a couple each game of Mahome’s wild scrambles had resulted in fumbles, or his tipped passes in more interceptions, we would not be as happy. People would say he was trying too hard, and that he needed to focus better. When, not if, his performance regresses toward the mean this year or in the future, or when, not if, he isn’t setting or tying records each game, I just hope people will attribute it to the usual trends of athletic performance and not think he has gotten complacent or stopped giving it his all.
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@mayjay AO isn’t that far back; I watched him play in the 70’s when I sat in the cheap outfield seats back when I was at KU. $5 for a seat then. That was a fun time for Royals fans. George Brett, et al.
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stoptheflop said:
@Kcmatt7 I watched Grimes compete in the FIBA tournament and was impressed with his size. The roster says 6’5", 210. He has broad shoulders and isn’t afraid to defend bigger guys in the paint. He played bigger than a shooting guard in the FIBA tourney last summer.
Thought the same, he looks every bit of 6’5 on the court. He’s physically ready to handle the battle’s he’ll be in
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@stoptheflop They got him in 1970, I think. Traded Joe Foy to the Mets. 48 years ago!!! 48 way-too-freaking-fast years ago! My entire post jr high life!
Almost a half-century. Just think, 48 years before that was 1922, 4 years after WWI. So, practically halfway back to WWI. WAY TOO MANY YEARS AGO!
Sorry…feeling my mortality today. But maybe I will have another 48. I’d only be 110. But at least then when I rant and rattle on people will just attribute it to being an old geezer.
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@mayjay Loved him.
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“You know what? I don’t know that it does matter. I’ll visit with my staff when I get back and we’ll evaluate practice today," Self said. "I think there’s a good chance Doke and Lagerald and Dedric will start. After that, I don’t know if we’ll go with some experience or throw the young kids out there. I wouldn’t be surprised if we go with two different starting lineups in the first two games just to see how they react, but don’t read into who starts.”
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Same. I’m tired of just talking legalese and rumors. I do post a lot on those just because it’s what I’ve done for a living, but I like actual basketball more. If I had to guess, I’d say the starters will be Dotson, Grimes, K.J., Dedric, and Doke. Though it would be zero surprise to see Vick starting at the 3. I’m like 90% sure Devon has shown the staff enough to claim the PG spot over Charlie. He’s probably better suited as a canned offense guy off the bench.
This comment is exactly how I feel too. I’ll add that I hope Marcus Garrett plays a lot this season.
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@JayHawkFanToo One of the best scenes in history. KAJ pulled it off, and so did the kid.
So, you earned another LOL! I am appointing you Official Comic Scene Finder to underscore all the important points I make. And, you will be happy to know, this important job does not require an FBI background check or taking testimony from anyone you knew in HS!
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I’ve always watched the exhibition games on my appleTv with ESPN3 for FREE. Looks like its ESPN+ this time and it costs…UGH
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@BigBad 4.99 plus tax for a month! Some times there’s a free trial period. I think you get the pre and post game action. I’m anxious to hear Vick speak
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@Crimsonorblue22 Can my $5 go towards our recruits?
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@BigBad I have cox and espn+. I also have fox sports to go. I get most Vb games, a few soccer and the first(?) fb game. I love the interviews in the post game segment.
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BigBad said:
I’ve always watched the exhibition games on my appleTv with ESPN3 for FREE. Looks like its ESPN+ this time and it costs…UGH
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I’m actually paying for ESPN+, but if you don’t want to, check that link a little before tip-off.
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Also it’s on 38 the Spot tonight right?
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Kcmatt7 said:
Also it’s on 38 the Spot tonight right?
Correct. But only people near KC can get that.
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@BShark Just wanted to throw it out there
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Or Cox 2022 or 22
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@BShark ya I’m paying for ESPN Plus too – eh 4.95 a month no biggie lol
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I’m excited to see how good Dedric really is, Self doesn’t praise a guy like that often. “Best passer on the team”, “we simply have no one who can guard him”, etc.
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Half an hour pre-game and one hour post-game as well…sweeeeeeet!!!
