For good luck, part 2 - West Virginia Mountaineers - Saturday - 5pm - ESPN
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It happens when a team plays like the billys, they foul, plain and simple. It’s the nature of their game.
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UH OH…Scotty looking to do the Hawks a favor in Wacko?
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Raiders really deserve to lose after what they chanted during the OU game…CLASSLESS, unbelievable fan base. This is what they do when they lead the conference…
And not a comment from Frannie. He’s the worst analyst ever. His son even played for OU.
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Baylor could have been up 9 or at half…instead they turned it over and are only up 4…might be the difference in this game.
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@truehawk93 Geez, that’s horrible.
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BShark said:
BYE BYE HUGGINS
That wasn’t the only missed called tonight Huggy!
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Like a tent in a tornado, WVU folded faster than a chinese laundry.
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@Hawk8086 The lowest order ever
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Ancient Chinese secret huh?..If you remember that commercial, you’re older than dirt.
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@truehawk93 I have Methuselah by a month or two…of course, i remember that commercial…lol.
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Memory lane…
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I officially declare ownership over those dreaded Hillbillies, also known as the Mounted Thugs.
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That was awesome! Kt just thanked me-the crowd, I’m loud! Shocked huh?
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KU was awarded 35 FTs and WVA just 2. I don’t blame Huggy for being pissed. If the stats were reversed, tell me you wouldn’t be complaining. That’s as large a disparity as I can remember. I’m not a fan of WV’s style of play, but 35 to 2?
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Thank you Baylor! They won despite 3 missed FTs and a turnover in the last 25 seconds. Now we can potentially win it outright…or we could still potentially lose at Tech and still tie.
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Hawk8086 said:
Thank you Baylor! They won despite 3 missed FTs and a turnover in the last 25 seconds. Now we can potentially win it outright…or we could still potentially lose at Tech and still tie.
Or we could clinch a tie on TT"s court!!!
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Perhaps you should look at the scoreboard first. The fouls were 26 for WVU and 14 for KU, the difference was that many of the fouls by WVU were during active shooting while most of KU were not shooting fouls. Bilas commented that the refs should have been calling more fouls on WVU instead of just warning the players. There were also a number of free throws at the end due to WVU fouling and the technical on Huggy.
Saying only that the FT were 35-2 without context is very missleading.
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Tech just got silly there at the end, had 3 chances down by 1 for 2 of them and then by 2. Why wouldn’t you go to hoop in a game that had a tight whistle is silly.
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@JayHawkFanToo You missed or ignored my point: If KU lost a close road game and the opponent shot 33 more free throws, KU fans, myself included, would be irate over the officiating. Huggins ejection was very understandable, even predictable given the free throw disparity.
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@stoptheflop we can’t play the same way wvu does. Hugs wasn’t mad til the end. The should have called more!
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No, I didn’t; you seem to indicate the refereeing favored KU which is not the case. Huggins had no reason to be that upset when you look at the numbers in context and why there was disparity; when a team plays like WVU does you should expect disparity in fouls, ergo free throws.
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I hope Huggins and every other coach that comes into Allen Fieldhouse feels as though they will be screwed by the refs. It’s great when they are already at a mental disadvantage coming into the building. They are already half beaten with that attitude. Blame it on the refs that way you never get better.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
No, I didn’t; you seem to indicate the refereeing favored KU which is not the case. Huggins had no reason to be that upset when you look at the numbers in context and why there was disparity; when a team plays like WVU does you should expect disparity in fouls, ergo free throws.
WVU’s normal road free throw numbers are 23 fouls by them, 17 by the opponent. Before the technical disaster it was 22-14, and I think there was still at least one deliberate late game foul in there for WVU.
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@JayHawkFanToo You are ignoring the the last 8 minutes of the game. We’re down 10, and nearly everything went in our favor. I outlined it on another thread. Go to 7:05 of second half. Doke dunks and gets a “barely a touch” foul call. Our next trip down at 6:29 a completely phantom block call on a Vick drive. At 5:41 Svi totally grabs a WVU player’s arm on a rebound, no call. Then at 5:00 280 pound Doke completely flops, refs call WVU foul on a Doke screen. At 1:43 it looked like Doke hit the WVU player in the face on his shot, his arms not vertical, no call.
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@HighEliteMajor I definitely though that should have been a foul on Doke. I’ll have to check the others you outlined.
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Also I don’t fault Doke too much for his flop, he was getting mugged on most screens he set throughout the game. He is big and strong though, so I expect that stuff to go uncalled.
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Dok flopped to get the foul called after dude had physically shoved him back a second before with no call. But here’s the kicker shouldn’t Huggins have been glad about the call? It stopped our offense that was getting going to put Dok on the line for a one and one. Dickhead in OU beat KU that way.
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Someone OUTLINE the calls we didn’t get it. I don’t have time
I do remember them though, showed them on the big screen too.
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Other than in a blow out, typically more fouls are called in the last few minutes of close games, particularly when teams that play like WVU get tired and sloppy.
As others have mentioned in the various threads on the subject, you can find an equal number of calls that went the other way.
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@JayHawkFanToo I did not refer to the last “few minutes”. I am talking the last 8 minutes of the game when we went from 10 down, to gain the lead. It was much in our favor, as I pointed to specific examples. And no, in the last 8 minutes, there are not a “equal number of calls that went the other way.”
You must really think that the refs are pristine, and objective, and unaffected by players, coaches, environment or score.
@Crimsonorblue22 Why don’t you outline the calls we didn’t get then? Maybe look at the last 8 minutes. You seem to have “time” to perpetually post one liners, so my guess is time isn’t the issue for you. Actually take some time to look at it and maybe your opinion might change.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Someone OUTLINE the calls we didn’t get it. I don’t have time
I do remember them though, showed them on the big screen too.In addition to the Garrett one, there was Svi getting dumpstered by Carter. Thanks to @dylans for mentioning that one.
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And no, in the last 8 minutes, there are not a “equal number of calls that went the other way.
On this we agree to disagree.
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Why is it that we don’t want the truth? Why is it that when folks universally know the refs are horrible, they won’t at least try to be objective? There are many times when we’ve not gotten the benefit of the refs. There are many times when we’ve been screwed. Over the course of a season – the bigger the sample size – I would say that the incompetence of the refs tends to even out.
But why can’t we objectively look at the last 8 minutes of this game and simply admit that we significantly benefited by the calls and non-calls?
That happens in CBB all the time. The next time, we might be the victim. And the same folks that stick their heads in the sand when it benefits KU will be the chief complainers.
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But why can’t we objectively look at the last 8 minutes of this game and simply admit that we significantly benefited by the calls and non-calls?
Isn’t this a text book example of an oxymoron?
Let’s be objective but let’s look at only the last 8 minutes of the game…ummm, no. If you want to be objective you look at the entire game when even ESPN though fouls were not being called on WVU.
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You do entertain me sometimes. If a ref makes a call on the last possession, and does not call a travel, but we are critical because it really was a travel, we’re not being objective? You’re just babbling. So being critical of the officiating when Svi traveled vs. KSU last year is not a reasonable exercise? Because the calls may have gone in KSU’s favor before that?
You ignore what you want to ignore. I’m objective, I’ll look at the entire game. I have no real issue with it. In fact, I can acknowledge there were a number of times we should have gotten calls throughout the game.
But you know what? The last 8 minutes is much different – for anyone willing to actually be objective.
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Asked what he told his team after the game – West Virginia’s sixth loss in as many visits to Allen Fieldhouse – Huggins said, “It wasn’t their fault.”
Underlying message- don’t even try. I love it when they come into Allen Fieldhouse defeated before the game even starts.
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For grins:
8 Miles turnover no foul
7:36 Newman 3 - clean
7:22 West 3 - clean
7:04 Dok shot + foul on arm (weak foul) and one free throw missed
6:30 Miles missed floater - clean
6:28 Newman fouled - body contact before layup attempt -Makes both freethrows
6:08 Carter misses - clean
5:44 Garrett called for a holding foul
5:39 Good no call on a loose ball (would’ve gone against Svi if it had been called)
5:27 foul on Svi
5:08 Bolden miss - clean
4:59 Dok flop following initial no call on foul
Jay Bilas, “Truthfully this isn’t a bad outcome for West Virginia.”
Dok makes the front and back end of the one and one. Finishing 7-10 from the line
4:34 Mitch blocking foul - good call, but the refs missed an offensive goal tend on the same play WVU misses and one free throw.
4:15 Vick fouled on layup attempt (weak foul, but there was contact on a shot) makes one of two freethrows.
3:44 Miles made 3 - clean
3:29 Devonte made 3 - clean
2:59 Carter missed floater - clean
2:45 Dok dunk WVU flop good no call
2:37 WVU timeout
2:18 Carter blocked by Dok clean up top body after the shot? No call
2:11 Newman made 3 - clean
1:41 Kontae miss on block - good D by Dok
Foul on Amhad pushing Svi in back during rebound - Amhad gets a bloody nose due to incidental contact
Double bonus Svi makes 2 freethrows
1:35 WVU timeout
1:09 West missed 3 - clean
Foul on Vick trying to rebound.
WVU one and one- lane violation on first free throw wipes it/them out
:39 Graham miss
:29 Carter 3 brick
:24 Miles turnover instead of shooting a three 68-66 advantage KU
:24 Graham fouled (intentionally by Carter) on rebound double bonus makes both 70-66 KU
:11 Miles block by Dok should’ve been a foul
:08 Newman layup
:08 Huggins Tech
:08 Huggins Tech
:06 Carter made 3 - clean
:05 Graham fouled double bonus makes both
:01 Miles missed 3 - clean
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At the end of the day WVU is one of the dirtiest teams in all of college hoops so I am never going to feel sorry for them.
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I’ve never put any stock into the refs determining outcomes. Generally it’s just poor excuse for losing. Garauntee there’s always more you could have done to win. Basketball is a thing of beauty to me in that regard. Nobody has ever played a perfect game. EVER. You don’t have to listen very hard at all to realize Coach Self feels this very same way about officiating. Having said that. Very few ppl are actually objective about it. The way to tell is very simple.
Have you ever actually blamed the refs for your team winning???
Or is it only bad reffing when they lose??
Most ppl… Probably over 95% it’s the later…
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@HighEliteMajor I hate to break it to you, but you will never be confused with being objective on any issue of referees. You have your opinions, you bring out the evidence you think supports you, and you call it objectivity. But since you have previously posted your lengthy diatribes about refs, including your belief that most are incompetent, yours is still only a biased view to be taken with a grain of salt.
Others, including many who have watched CBB as long as or longer than you, may disagree. And we are not objective either.
Frankly, don’t trust anyone who starts out with, “Look, I’m being honest here”, and look for additional perspectives when someone claims that theirs is the only objective view.
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Replay is up on youtube for those interested.
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@mayjay The issue of objectivity here is not with officials. I agree with you. I believe officials suck.
But this issue of objectivity relates to whether we view the calls for, or against, our team, KU, objectively.
That’s where rose colored glasses come in.
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@Dylans - nice summary. At 6:28 on Newman’s drive (I had incorrectly said Vick) there was little if any contact ( I didn’t see really any), and it was not on the shot. He shot a 1-1. I had skipped the 4:15 foul that gave Vick free throws but you’re right, it was a bit weak.
The point is and your summary is excellent, the last eight minutes of calls/non-calls went our way when, very easily, they might not have.
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@HighEliteMajor I don’t see much to bitch about there for either team. I do see a coaching opportunity for Huggins if he admits the foul discrepancy was due to weak offense not attacking the Jayhawks, but given his post game remarks he isn’t taking it as a learning opportunity.
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@HighEliteMajor I never have viewed reffing through rose-colored glasses, and I believe I have never suggested or complained that KU got screwed overall in a game by refs in the 52 years or so I have been watching. (But I have complained that they missed a call here or there. I think in general those go both ways. Trying to be objective, which as you know…)
I do think a statistical disparity like yesterday is worth looking at by the ref supervisors, but I personally didn’t see any great reason to be concerned–except for Huggins trying really hard to get that 2nd technical so he could cry “Persecution!”
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Look at the shot/foul summary that @dylans posted of the last 8 minutes.
