Accidental Perfection
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IIRC, didn’t Frank Mason have to reclassify as well because of his grades?
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@Eric-san I believe App. St. had a coaching change and Frank asked for his release from his LOI and App. St. refused so Mason went to prep school to get out of his LOI and started picking up interest from major conference schools that summer.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Wasn’t that DG that had a LOI to App st.?
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@Eric-san Yes, I always get their backgrounds switched up since neither one should have ended up at KU.
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He had committed to Townsend but had to come out due to course work issues, I believe he had failed a class in his senior year. Then he joined a military high school for one year.
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Very minor thing to comment on but the KUsports article only citing the Rivals ranking is silly. Jerry Meyer was touting Mason HARD when he committed to KU. Saying KU got a steal etc… Not sure his 247 ranking at the time but he ended up #52. ESPN and Scout didn’t even rank him which is absurd. Though with ESPN it’s that they didn’t rank post grads, possible that they still don’t. However I don’t check ESPN much because they are a joke and the worst of the recruit ranking websites.
Oh and the Harrison twins were perceived OADs, but they did stay a 2nd year at UK.
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I do believe that if Newman wasn’t on the roster Self would have landed a PG in this class. Still it was rough missing on a bunch again this year. At least Jacobs is on board for 19. Hopefully the staff can land some good guards in 18.
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@HighEliteMajor so glad we didn’t land the Harrison twins. They seemed to be polar opposites of Frank in disposition. Punks.
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@HighEliteMajor …and Frank declares he would trade all those honors for one Jayhawk National Championship. A very rare nugget, that kid.
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@HighEliteMajor said:
Yet Mason will go down as the one of the greatest Jayhawks in history
I’m trying to be objective, but I am thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to saying he is THE greatest Jayhawk in history.
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@HighEliteMajor I think Bill has recruited the guys he wants over the rankings for years.
Look at Embiid. I can’t even remember the guy who started in front of him that went to Kentucky now. Bill and staff found Embiid as well. Definitely Frank is an amazing find, but I think the staff found exceptional talent that was under recognized twice that year.
The difference is that a. Frank was short b. Frank was from the Petersburg area, which isn’t on recruiters maps, and c. he had academic issues.
In Embiid’s case, he was a. a backup to a high level recruit b. played for only 3 years c. an international player if anyone had a prejudice there.
I think all of these are worthwhile looking at as vectors that are under recruited. There is a science to this diamond in the rough business.
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@approxinfinity Dakari Johnson…
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@REHawk that wasn’t very nice!
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@REHawk It wasn’t Dakari Johnson, it was Chris Walker who ended up at Florida.
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@REHawk that’s the guy! Thanks.
And here’s the thing about Frank. If you watch his play at high school or his play his freshman year, it was clear that his handles were better coming in than all those other guys.
His work ethic made him a legend but his ball handling was already there. And after the ball handling of Tyshawn, EJ and Naadir seeing Frank protect the rock and his intensity in the Kentucky loss was like a gale of fresh air blowing through a moldering old church. I could not have asked for a better answer to the problems of the previous generation of KU guard play, even then, and I have to believe that they saw those dimensions of Frank’s game and knew them to have the potential to be dominant qualities.
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Danny.
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@approxinfinity Embiid is another case if KU getting lucky in recruiting. Norm Roberts was the guy who identified Embiid when he was playing behind Chris Walker and was recruiting Embiid to Florida when Danny Manning accepted the Tulsa job and Self brought Norm back to Lawrence and Norm then sold Self on Embiid to Kansas.
Bill Self really has gotten extremely lucky over the past few years in recruiting with players falling into his lap because of coaching changes or other weird situations.
KU does not land the Morris twins unless Calipari takes the Kentucky job, KU doesn’t get Jeff Withey without Lute Olsen’s sudden retirement, KU doesn’t land Josh Selby without Bruce Pearl running afoul of the NCAA rules, KU easily could’ve lost Ben McLemore and Jamari Traylor had they chosen to leave after being ruled partial qualifiers, Mason doesn’t end up at KU without his academic issues, and Graham doesn’t end up at KU without App. St. refusing to grant his release from his LOI after they fired their coach at the time.
Obviously some of these guys worked out better than others, but that’s still 9 recruits who have ended up at KU in the past 10 years (not including any potential recruits in this class) that KU realistically could and in a lot of cases, should have missed out on, but the basketball recruiting gods have frequently smiled on Self and gifted him with players he shouldn’t have ended up with.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 very lucky yes. Very good at being lucky
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@Texas-Hawk-10 As I pretty well recall, when Joel first immigrated to Florida he played second fiddle to Dakari Johnson; but then transferred the next season in order to glean more game experience (IMG Academy?). Johnson roared off to Lexington, but I think it was Norm Roberts who had unearthed Embiid and evaluated his glowing potential. Our coaching staff brought him in as something of a project, then literally the entire hoops world was astounded at his early progress. Even eventual Laker Tarik Black seemed happy to mentor him, then agreeably stepped aside when Joel was ready to start and shine. Meanwhile, Dakari had a so/so tenure at Kentucky contrasted with his high school promise.
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Great post.
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@REHawk Dakari Johnson never went to IMG. Embiid came over, was stuck behind Chris Walker and transferred to The Rock School in Gainesville on the advice of Norm Roverts because Norm was recruiting him to Florida first before Norm got hired back to KU.
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Thanks for the link HEM I got a kick out reading all those comments. I would like to say that my comment on that thread, although sarcastic in intent, mentioned noticing his rebound positioning and ability on youtube. LOL probably only time I was right that year!!
In reading all the comments tho it makes me realize that perhaps we should avoid being to negative on recruits. If nothing else less shame when they prove us wrong the way Frank has!
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I will never bash a kid that commits to KU. I’ll be honest though. Like with Thomas Allen if he picks KU, it’s not to contribute next year. He could be a transfer candidate, but we know Self likes to fill the roster. No harm in that imo, Self usually finds the kid a nice place to land.
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Given how well Allen shoots it I hope we get to see him here and developing. My Brewster connections said they think he’s a good kid who will work hard. They think the key to his situation at KU is how quickly he can establish his role. Will he try and play PG or stick to his more natural role
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Definitely. If he comes to KU I hope he toughs it out. Honestly I hope he redshirts next season, because that means he is really committed for the long haul at KU. I think in his JR/SR years, he will be a really nice all around player with the way this staff has developed guards.
Pretty much every player that actually played and redshirted has been a smashing success during Self’s KU tenure. Releford, Lucas, Brady. Some would argue Jamari is a disappointment but considering he was pretty much NR out of HS I do not.
Only counting actual redshirts not transfers that had to redshirt a year.
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Much like great players, great coaches don’t need luck…they make their own luck.
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Let’s not forget that Mason was a volume shooter and scorer in HS and had to change his MO and buy into Coach Self’s system. It worked out well for Frank.
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@BShark Depends on your viewpoint. Danny was expected to be Danny. Frank was expected to fill a spot on the floor and not throw games away. Who rose above expectations? Don’t get me wrong - I love Danny, but Frank’s stepped it way up. I think he has a whole bunch of hardware that Danny doesn’t have too.
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@nuleafjhawk not going to compare, just remember, Danny stayed.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Did I say Dakari Johnson went to IMG? Nope. I do think Embiid might have finished there, but could be wrong. I am still not convinced about that Walker business. Will you buy me a beer if you are wrong?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Okay, I spent a few minutes on wikipedia. Embiid first sat behind D. Johnson at Montverde Academy, then transferred to The Rock for his senior season. Your guy Walker attended Holmes County High School. Forget the beer. Just get your stories straight.
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Having a night to sit on it, Thank You Devonte Graham for choosing to come back and finish your career here. Frank Mason probably was a huge influence in that decision. We most likely have Frank to thank for this…
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@Crimsonorblue22 ?? So did Frank…?? I’m not saying Frank is THE best - just that he should be considered in that conversation. Everybody is going to have their own opinion - there is no conceivable way to measure who is/was the actual best.
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@nuleafjhawk oh I just meant Danny could have gone to the draft. I love them both and hate comparing, but yeah it’s everyone’s own view.
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Momma Graham too.
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@BShark mommas are important!
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@Crimsonorblue22 I still miss Mario.
